07 May 2012

I suppose Europe could rediscover itself

But it really does, for now, seem to be dying, while America is, arguably, making a come-back..

Who knows. Maybe at the end of all this, Europeans will discover their own culture buried under two centuries of socialist and Marxist garbage: the Europe of Adam Smith and Tocqueville, of von Mises and Hayek, of Aristotle and Aquinas. Maybe they’ll realize their birthright as the original home of liberty and freedom, at long last.
Or not.

UPDATE: It occurs to me I should have added I would like very much for Europe to rediscover itself. Among other reasons, I was stationed in Europe with the Army years ago, and loved it there. But I don't hold out much hope, unless there is a mass re-commitment to their Christian roots. I suspect most Europeans don't see it that way.

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

A yes, lets link to a post by someone that is full of himself by someone full of himself, neither having comprehension of history, politics or finances.

Finance. The entire global market down turn is not due to the economic bubble in the US and overall market shenanigans in the USA, nay. It most be because of the EU being a lefty lazy bunch of no good secular terrorist loving cowards.

Politics. Most countries in the EU atm having a center right government doesn't mean a thing because unlike the T-party they aren't a collection of racist bible toting science denying gun wielding afraid of their own shadow crackpots and therefor the EU must be muslim loving commies.

History. The EU is a project that has been evolving (I know, using a no-no word there) since before 1958. USSR fell apart not because of the cowboy Reagan(remember him of drugs for arms to give to enemies of the USA?) but because of a man in the USSR that had the good of his land before the good of this bank account in mind.
So the year 1992/93 has nothing to do with anything.

I guess it's due to envy. The EU now has more citizens then the USA and although it's a collection of all kings of countries on average it still has less violent crimes, better schooling, better and more affordable health care, and pretty much outperforms the USA on anything good.

Oh and it won the Nobel peace prize.

James Frank Solís said...

I really don't know what makes a man full of himself in your eyes except that he has opinions at variance with your own. If merely having and expressing an opinion -- at all -- is what it takes the, tu quoque, pal.

Finance: I do not see where Herman made any argument about the entire global melt-down being the fault of the UE. I'm sure your superior intellect found that argument between the lines. You're good at that. I certainly would not blame the global melt-down on the EU. I blame in loose monetary policy here in the USA.

Politics: All you ever really do is call people names. If it weren't for ad hominem you'd have little in the way of argument. Actually, no, the EU having a center-right government doesn't mean a thing. That observation is irrelevant to Herman's point, which is that those things European nations have tried are doomed to failure, as they would be, and to a certain extent, are also doomed to failure here in the US: fascism, communism and, now, state socialism's mixed economy. If you have a contrary argument, however brief, you certainly gave little indication of it. Once again, the only thing you have to deal with is that anyone would have the temerity to have a position opposing your own.

History: Give me a break -- 'evolving' as such, a dirty word. Now, you're insulting just to be insulting. I'm supposed to worry about your opinion of me...why? Never mind. Yes, the EU is a project that has been evolving. Once again, I don't know how you think Herman's position requires anything different. Even as an evolving, I think he would say, the EU, as part of its continuing evolution, should embrace "American ideas and policies based on free markets, economic growth, and individual freedom." Does Herman speak too glowingly here of "American" ideas? Certainly. After all, these "American" ideas are an inheritance from Europe. He even names the European thinkers from whom we got these ideas: Smith, Mises, Hayek.

But that, also, is part of his point. Europe's rediscovery of itself would begin with embracing again the thinking synthesized by those men. Not that you'd be in favor of that.

Envy? I don't know if Herman envies the EU. You'd have to ask him. Actually, you don't: you just know.

Nora said...

"You just know." Now that's funny. I don't care who you are.

Anonymous said...

And as per usual you duck, you weave, you hide. Let no one say that you stand by what you say or imply because that is not your manner or those of your ilk. No, you rather blast pompous rhetoric and when shown that you're wrong or have gone into the deep end you cower behind the skirts of whomever you've been fawning over of late. The 'I didn't say that, he did. I only linked/qouted' line of defense is of such a level of maturity that it makes one wonder if you actually ever finished primary school.

By the way does "the EU, as part of its continuing evolution, should embrace "American ideas and policies based on free markets, economic growth, and individual freedom." include the fact that for instance you can have the exact same medical procedure in NY for 90k while it costs only 8k in NJ and is practically for free in most of Europe?

You should really stop looking for ways to make yourself look intelligent and do some research. Perhaps then you'll learn that the entire libertarian idea is only found appealing in a very limited circle. Mostly by people that think they are so smart but at the same time despise intellectual.

Libertarianism is something that has a certain charm to certain people just as racism, religion, marxism or facism has to some. None of them being based on fact, logic or science but just because they fancy what they think it means.

Of course, now you can redefine what libertarianism means.

James Frank Solís said...

I'm not too sure where this ducking, weaving and hiding is. I attempted to reply to your comment on the three themes you raised: finance, politics and history. If you found my reply factually insufficient why not simply demand clarification or expansion?

Where is the ducking and weaving? When I replied to your accusation of being full of myself by saying that it only takes having a position contrary to your own to be guilty of that?

I didn't duck and weave when, in response to your false claim about it, I replied that Herman didn't argue that the melt-down was the EU's fault.

You say that I, when shown wrong "or have gone into the deep end... cower behind the skirts of whomever you've been fawning over of late." Is the following an example of being shown wrong?

"Most countries in the EU atm having a center right government doesn't mean a thing because unlike the T-party they aren't a collection of racist bible toting science denying gun wielding afraid of their own shadow crackpots and therefor the EU must be muslim loving commies."

I ask because it looks more like a plain, ordinary, everyday type (and, for you, typical) insult. To the extent you offered anything else, I replied to that, actually crediting you being correct that the EU has a center-right government. Now, I did go on to say that was irrelevant to Herman's argument. Was that the ducking and weaving to which you refer? I mean, you could easily have argued how it was relevant to his argument.

And I'm not aware of using the "I didn't say that, he did. I only linked/qouted" line of defense. I don't need such a line of defense, or any line of defense: Obviously, I agree with him substantially. But, as I review my reply to you, I find the only distance I put between him and myself was this:

"Does Herman speak too glowingly here of "American" ideas? Certainly. After all, these "American" ideas are an inheritance from Europe. He even names the European thinkers from whom we got these ideas: Smith, Mises, Hayek."

Have the decency and admit, if I hadn't distanced myself from him on at least something, you'd have accused me of slavish devotion.

As to the only bit of substance you offered, yes this really does make sense:

"By the way does 'the EU, as part of its continuing evolution, should embrace "American ideas and policies based on free markets, economic growth, and individual freedom." 'include the fact that for instance you can have the exact same medical procedure in NY for 90k while it costs only 8k in NJ and is practically for free in most of Europe?"

First, I admitted that those "American" ideas were really European ideas. I listed some of the thinkers we got those ideas from.

Second, it makes perfect sense that the exact same medical procedure in NY can cost 90k while it costs only 8k in NJ. It's a freedom thing. Anyone selling a good or service should be free to sell that good or service at the price he wants and successfully negotiates with the buyers of those goods and services. There is no such thing as inherent, or objective value.

Finally, as to your little swipe at libertarianism: I don't need to learn that it is appealing in a very limited circle. I have long known that. I just don't think losing a popularity contest means very much. You do. I get that. You're very adolescent that way.

Now, as I said in my recent comment on the anger posting, I shant be responding to any more of this. I don't have much time in the first place; I certainly don't have time to respond one who writes more nonsense than he he thinks I do.

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James Frank Solís
Former soldier (USA). Graduate-level educated. Married 26 years. Texas ex-patriate. Ruling elder in the Presbyterian Church in America.
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